Guest Post: Facing Your Spiritual Abuser

Cindy, at the Under Much Grace blog has so kindly allowed us to re-post this article, entitled:

Facing Your Spiritual Abuser: Index of Posts About the Star Chamber and the Hot Seat

As we have seen in many of the stories here ( Kip's , for example), this is very much a reality.  Please stop over at Cindy's blog...but I must warn you...there is so much good information that you will need to have time on your hands!  Very educational.

For those that have answered A Call for Reconciliation, please take notes!

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Sometimes, members of a high demand group or a spiritually abusive church are called in to sessions of confrontation with their group leadership, pastors, and elders in order to intimidate them and to secure their compliance with group demands. And quite often, when people discover problems with manipulation, doctrine, or exploitation within their spiritually abusive church, they feel responsible to inform their leadership. Many people seek out their leaders to inform their leaders that they are leaving their group, just as a courtesy, to find personal closure, and sometimes, to hopefully make their spiritual abuser aware of the hurtful if not harmful nature of their actions – a personal courtesy to them.

Because of the authoritarian nature of spiritually abusive groups and the dynamics by which the leaders perpetuate control and coercion of the followers, group leaders generally react to this type of confrontation in very predictable ways. Such a system demands compliance with a certain set of dynamics, one of which demands complete perfection of the group, the way it does things, and the decisions made by the leaders. The group defines ultimate truth, so the group leadership speaks on God's behalf. The system demands complete devotion and compliance, requiring unquestioned obedience and complete submission to authority to any of their superiors on their chain of command. Because these dynamics demand that the follower assume fault at all costs, for the purposes of discussion, we have named the sessions of confrontation the “Star Chamber.”

Manipulative groups also make use of shame sessions that demand that the follower confess their faults to the group and the leadership. Deeply personal information elucidated in the “star chamber” can generally be extracted from group members because of the threatening nature of the confrontation sessions, what some high demand groups have formally called “the Hot Seat.”

If you're planning to confront a church leader that you suspect might be spiritually abusive, you will find this series of blog posts quite helpful. If you have advanced knowledge of the nature of a meeting to which you've been summoned, or if you are planning to confront manipulative church leaders, please take advantage of this information in advance. If you are recovering from this aspect of spiritual abuse which often proves to be quite difficult because of the moral questions that arise, you will likely find this information helpful to you as you work through the anger, grief, recovery, moving through your experience into triumph.

The many posts on the subject have been categorized to make them easier to navigate.

Thought Conversion During Confrontations

With a Manipulative Leader

(What is the Church Star Chamber and the Hot Seat?)

• When Persecution Comes and Thought Conversion Results (How the confrontation process can get you to change your thoughts, emotions, and behaviors)
•  When You're Summoned to the Church Star Chamber (Intimidating meetings with many church leaders, usually conducted under the guise of “the Matthew 18 process” as a discipline session)
• Thought Conversion on the Hot Seat (A process of interrogation that generally takes place during “star chamber” confrontation meetings with manipulative leadership – a formal practice in many high demand groups and religions)
• The Violence of Thought Conversion: Wrapped in Gentleness and in Cruelty (Sometimes the process of conversion through confrontation appears to be gentle and benign, though the group demands relinquishing of personal will, history, and ethics in order to meet the demands of the group)

Considerations and Protective Measures to Take

When You Encounter a Hot Seat / Star Chamber Meeting

• What Do You Risk When You Go to a Meeting? (Biderman's Chart of Coercion used as a model to identify and anticipate tactics used to manipulate and intimidate – limited discussion of Sovereign Grace Ministries/Mahaney and Mars Hill Church/Driscoll)
• If You Choose to Go to Star Chamber Confrontations with Ministers, At Least Be Knowledgeable About Abuse (The bare minimum of information to review about thedynamics of thought conversion and abusers when you've willingly chosen confrontation instead of walking away: links to summaries and blog entries)
• Practical Considerations for the Confrontation of a Pastor with Spiritually Abusive Tendencies (Ideas about how you can protect yourself and limit the damage)
  
  
  
  

  Questions About the

  
  

  Hot Seat / Star Chamber Experience

  
  

  • Do I Really See Spiritual Abuse All Around Me?
  • Does My Pastor Deliberately Use Thought Reform?
  • Does Someone Teach Thought Reform To Pastors Under the Guise of Good Christian Practice?
  • Don't Church Leaders Realize Just How Abusive They Really Are?
  • Working for a Religious Group or a Secular Employer Who Uses Manipulative Tactics.

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  Cynthia Mullen Kunsman is a nurse (RN, BSN), naturopath (ND) and seminary graduate (MMin) with a wide variety of training and over 20 years of clinical experience. She has used her training in Complementary and Alternative Medicine as a lecturer and liaison to professional scientific and medical groups, in both academic and traditional clinical healthcare settings. She also completed additional studies in the field of thought reform, including the study of hypnotherapy for both chronic pain management as well as its efficacy in the treatment of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) that is often associated with cultic group involvement. Her nursing experience ranges from intensive care, the training of critical care nurses, hospice care, case management and quality management, though she currently limits her practice to forensic medical record review and evaluation. Most of her professional efforts concern the study of manipulative and coercive evangelical Christian groups, the recovery process from thought reform, and PTSD associated with such involvement.

Kip's Story

My wife and I were faithful members of Mars Hill Church including active in Community Group, Service Ministries, special events, etc.  We were attending an ever increasing CG that would discuss often its need to split.  My CG leader then approached me about considering becoming a leader.  He informed me that I was already considered a ‘leader’ of sorts within the group.  My wife and I prayed and sought wisdom in launching a group of our own.  After lots of prayer and consideration we decided to answer the call for more leaders.  I attended a few training sessions, completed some course material and lead a few CG sessions.

Then it came time for my pastoral interview.  I met my CG leader and a campus pastor early one morning before work at a local coffee shop.  Pastor X’s first question was, “How is the training going so far?”  I proceeded to tell him things were going okay.  I went onto say that I was very humbled by the opportunity to lead a community group but that in some ways I felt inexperienced and under-prepared.  The pastor stopped me and started grilling me on why I felt that way.  He then informed me that I was “not living up to my true potential and everything God has called me to be.”  He went on “do you truly believe God calls people?” “I do” I said.  “Well then you’re not living up to all that God has called you to be.”  “Hmmm,” I thought, okay I imagine that’s true.  The more I answered his questions, the more ammunition it seemed to provide him and the more he would grill me.  I noticed he didn’t really have an agenda or any questions he was reading from and that his only agenda was to confront and attack any ‘sinfulness’ he sensed from my responses.  At one point he stopped and said “I hope you don’t feel like I’m attacking you… because we do this to all of our leaders.”  After an hour or more, the ‘interview’ was over and I had to leave for work.  I left feeling confused and unsure of what had happened.  My wife called to ask how it went, but I could only reply “I don’t know.”  To this day, it is the strangest interview I have ever been to inside or outside the church.  

That Sunday I asked my CG leader how things went.  He would tell me that the pastor has some “concerns” about me and “why” I want to be a CG leader.  He suspected I was doing it simply to ‘please’ man.  I was thoroughly confused but then was reminded back to a conversation I had had with my CG leader months prior about trying not to please others.  I decided to go home and send an email to the pastor asking for further clarification since I was not doing this to please MH.  I also expressed a few concerns about how the interview was conducted.  Because of this experience and other observations, I suspected MH believed in order to build men up, they must bully them and break them down.  His reply came that he had perhaps misrepresented himself and that he wasn’t simply trying to “sin-hunt.”   He asked if we could meet again to get on the same page – which I agreed to.  A day later he says he needs to involve some more pastors for greater accountability.  At this point I decided that perhaps getting further involved wasn’t the right move.  When I tried to rescind my name from the training process and decline to meet further – I was accused of ‘running’ from community and my leaders who were trying to love me.

So to prove that we weren’t running, we agreed to meet.  When we arrived a little early to our meeting, Pastor X got frantic and explained that it wasn’t possible until all parties were available.  This was getting more bizarre and we began feeling more intimidated by all of this.  What had I done?  Hadn’t I just pointed out some concerns about their ‘training’ process?  Wasn’t this an ‘open-handed’ issue?   I knew they would probably disagree with my concerns but at least we could shake hands and agree to disagree.  We were brought to their downstairs offices where we sat nervously making chit chat with our CG leader.  Finally the door opens and both pastors usher us into this tiny office with 2 couches facing each other.  The door locks behind us where we find ourselves in a room with black walls and a sword hanging above the couch opposite us.  Pastor X sat back and let the new Pastor Y do all the talking.  He quickly looked over my email and then sized us up by questioning us about attendance, serving, CG participation, etc.  He then asked me what the issue was at which point I did my best to explain what problems I sensed with the training process.  I expressed my concern about building leaders up by breaking them down and that it wasn’t good or healthy for us as a church.  He looked at me and said “Then how would you do it?”  After my concerns were quickly dismissed, the real purpose for the meeting could get underway.   Pastor Y stopped for a second, looked at me intently and said “God is telling me that your real issue is pride.  You have a pride problem that you need to deal with.   You came in here with your fists up ready to fight didn’t you?  Well you now have a chance to respond either in pride or humility – what’s it going to be?”  He must have sensed that I was feeling intimidated, but with 2 pastors and my CG leader staring me down and grilling  – I guess you could say I felt a little defensive.   My CG leader chimed in with a laundry list of items where I had “failed” him both in the training process and outside of.   Pastor Y repeated the question “will you respond in pride or humility?”  Pastor X on the other side yelling “What’s Jesus saying! What’s Jesus saying!”  I started to feel like I was suffocating or like a giant weight was crushing me.   I finally broke.  The tears start running and at once my wife and I and everyone else in the room was relieved that I had admitted my sin.  We were convinced that my concerns were irrelevant because I was prideful…  Everyone patted themselves on the back and we prayed together.   But from the moment we left, I felt sick to my stomach like something wrong had just happened.   What happened there was anything but kind or loving.  To be sure, it was the scariest most divisive most manipulative experience I have ever been through.  It was more of an interrogation than anything.  But to answer their question: “yes” I am prideful and at times need repentance from it and will my whole life.  But does that negate my concerns about their training process?  Or perhaps these things really weren’t open-handed...

Later that week my CG leader calls trying to follow-up with an offer to provide assistance in repenting from my pride.   When I declined his help, it only prompted more calls, emails and text messages.  Things started to get even more awkward and uncomfortable at church.  We decided to stay on the outskirts, find a new community group etc.  They went as far as saying that I needed help in my repentance.  Never mind the ministry and work of the Holy Spirit or verses like Philippians 1:6.  What did they want from me?  I imagined the only thing that would satisfy them was to lie before them and recant.  We couldn’t believe what was happening.  We started to suspect that the Lord may be leading us away from MH.   But we didn’t want to accept it since all of our friends and some of our family attended here.  This was our home.  I demanded they stop harassing me, but it only persisted.  Eventually I received an email from Pastor X entitled “Your Unrepentant Heart” in which he would inform me that I was being placed under church discipline.  Pastor X even went so far as to tell me that even if I left and went to a new church it would follow me as “church discipline is binding in heaven.”   By this point friends were avoiding and deserting us.  We knew it was time to leave. 

I could write much more about the painful trial that ensued but I prefer to make much more about how God faithfully protected and provided for us.  Some days it’s still raw and I have to pray for the Lord's help in not growing bitter.  Two years later we still receive disdainful glances from MH members who either know we left or find out we used to attend.  I’m sure the pastors felt they were doing us a service, but they did so at the cost of abuse.  I would later find out that what we went through is considered by some to be spiritual abuse.

Judged

Sad but true in so many lives.  We can do better.

You Should Just Be Quiet

Please read Matthew Paul Turner's Me, troublemaker? post.

Over the last few weeks, my husband and I, like Matthew, have gotten many comments implying that we should not be talking about our experience at Mars Hill.  These commenters are knowingly or unknowingly employing the "Don't Talk" rule.

What is the "Don't Talk" rule?

David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen describe it in The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse like this:
"The can't talk rule has this thinking behind it: 'The real problem cannot be exposed because then it would have to be dealt with and things would have to change; so it must be protected behind walls of silence (neglect) or by assault(legalistic attack).  If you speak about the problem out loud, you are the problem.  In some way you must be silenced or eliminated." pg. 68

The authors point out that the people who talk about the problems don't CAUSE them, they EXPOSE them.  Johnson & VanVonderen

In Healing Spiritual Abuse by Ken Blue says:
"One of the most troubling abusive traits in the dysfunctional church or denominational family is the unwritten "no talk" rule. This rule implies that certain problems in the group must not be exposed because then the group might look bad and things would have to change. The "no talk" rule itself is among those things never talked about. Healthy groups thrive on the free flow of information. Members have ready access to each other's opinions and concerns. Sick groups generally suffer from confused, defective or controlled communication."

Most often, for my husband and I, it comes in one of the following forms:

1. What you are doing is not contributing to the cause of Christ (so you should just be quiet)
2. What you are doing is not edifying (so you should just be quiet)
3. What can you do about it?  Pastor Mark is a big "celebrity" and Mars Hill is a huge influence on Christian culture.  You are just one person.  (So you might as well be quiet).  For fun, read  Judges 6:1-16
4. I have had a wonderful experience at Mars Hill, you must have done something wrong. (So, please, just be quiet).

I have my moments when I feel like I should maybe, well, just be quiet.  I mean, what about the people who did meet Jesus through Mars Hill?  What about all the well meaning members who have nothing to do with all this?

And then I think of the people who have shared their stories, both publicly and privately.  Some have lost faith in church, some have lost faith in people, some have lost faith in God.  Some have lost family members, marriages, kids.  Most have lost dignity.

There are people who are afraid of retaliation!  Sometimes, I am one of them. This should not be happening in the church.  The human part of us should be able to see past our associations and have empathy for those who have suffered, even if it was at the hands of someone we love or an organization we are part of!

I am with Matthew when he says:

"In my opinion, Mark is one of the most influential “Christian figures” affecting today’s “Christian culture”. His reach influences various aspects of Christian life: church growth, ministry, gender roles in the church, relationships, and more. Furthermore, Mark proactively seeks to influence and nurture young male pastors, church ministry workers, missionaries, etc. If Mark’s theologies, actions, and church management style only impacted Mars Hill, I probably wouldn’t care. Well, I would care and certainly make note of it, but I wouldn’t keep coming back to it. But Mark’s “gospel” bleeds into and affects how pastors of churches all over the country (and world) are managing their churches and ministries, from missions to church discipline. His words affect how pastors teach and manage and control a woman’s role in the church, home, work, etc. If you think I’m crazy, go read a month’s worth of comments on his Facebook wall. These pastors watch Mark. They sometimes idolize him. Sometimes they hang on his every word. And it’s all intentional. Mark doesn’t accidentally influence these pastors, it’s his passion and calling. From what I’ve heard and seen, Mark wants to influence how churches all over the world function. And that’s scary in my opinion."

When we started looking for a new church, after "the shun", we went to church after church (not Mars Hill or Acts 29).  The first one was a bit far from us, and they asked us if we had heard of Acts 29 and that maybe we could find a church closer to home.  Then the pastor announced they would be implementing The City soon.

The next one we went to seemed fine.  We had been going for a few months.  We missed a few services, and later found out that one of the services we missed was preached by...none other than Pastor Mark.  A few weeks later they promoted his "Real Marriage" book as book of the week.

He is influencing all the Mars Hill campuses, 400+ Acts 29 churches, and countless other non affiliated pastors.  It is concerning.  It is harder to find a church, at least in our area, that is not a "fan" then it is to find one that is.

So, NO!  I WILL NOT JUST BE QUIET!  I am okay with being misunderstood.  I am okay with being labeled the "problem".  I am willing to lose a few friends. If telling our story and the stories of others helps one person, then it was worth it.

Which Came First...The Berean or The Outcast?

I think most of us who find ourselves here can identify with both the Berean and the Outcast.  I was pondering the idea...do Bereans become Outcasts?  Or do Outcasts become Bereans?

Be·re·an  noun \bəˈrēən\

In the bible, the Bereans were the people who lived in the city of Berea (present day northern Greece).

Easton's Bible Dictionary describes Berea as:

“A city of Macedonia to which Paul with Silas and Timotheus went when persecuted at Thessalonica (Acts 17:10, 13), and from which also he was compelled to withdraw, when he fled to the sea-coast and thence sailed to Athens (14, 15). Sopater, one of Paul's companions belonged to this city, and his conversion probably took place at this time (Acts 20:4). It is now called Verria.”

In Acts 17:11-13 , Luke writes:

And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul’s message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth. As a result, many Jews believed, as did many of the prominent Greek women and men. But when some Jews in Thessalonica learned that Paul was preaching the word of God in Berea, they went there and stirred up trouble. (NLT)

A Berean is simply a Christian that compares EVERYTHING they are taught to the Bible as the final authority.

Characteristics of the Berean:

• She/he is eager for the Word of God (synonyms of eager: crazy, desirous, enthusiastic, excited, greedy, hungry, pumped, raring, thirsty, voracious)
• He/she searches the scriptures daily (Doesn’t rely only on others for learning)
• She/he uses discernment (He/she is not influenced by fame, prestige or influence of the preacher or leader, only the word, and judges things according to that standard)
• He/she believes the Word, and influences others to believe the truth (v. 12)
• She/he is willing to suffer for the faith (v. 13 and see below)

I recently read this old post, More Roles in a Toxic Faith System – Enabler, Victim, and Outcast, at  The Wartburg Watch  about the role of “The Outcast” in the book Toxic Faith by Stephen Arteburn and Jack Felton.

Outcast noun \out-kast\

Dictionary.com defines outcast as:

1. "a person who is rejected or cast  out, as from home orsociety: In the beginning the area was settled by outcasts,adventurers, and felons.
2. a homeless wanderer; vagabond.
3. rejected matter; refuse."

The Outcast (quoted from TWW which quoted the book):

"Of the five roles in the toxic-faith system, only one is not a religious addict or bound by toxic faith. In most toxic systems, someone can usually see the problem and confront it. Unwilling to play the games of the persecutors and co-conspirators, the person becomes an outcast.

The people who stand up for what is right and challenge the system lose their jobs, friends, and church. They become lone voices in the wilderness, crying out for change that will not come as long as the persecutor dictates power, the co-conspirators manipulate the system, the enablers allow it to continue, and the victims fall in line with blind faith. When outcasts surface, they are identified as TROUBLEMAKERS and pushed out of the system as soon as possible." (p. 201)

Characteristics of the Outcast: (p. 203)

• Is not a religious addict
• Does not possess a toxic faith
• Willingly stands alone
• Stands up for what is right
• Is willing to be rejected by others in the toxic-faith system
• Can discern right from wrong
• Commits to leaders having integrity
• Refuses to be victimized by false teaching and lack of integrity
• Speaks out for truth
• Usually loses a job within a toxic organization over concern for it
• Suffers rejection by friends after challenging the leadership of those in the toxic-faith system
• Often is treated as a leper
• Is begged by others in the toxic-faith system to support the persecutor
• Endures shame for actions
• Refuses to respect or be manipulated by those in the toxic-faith system
• Sees the truth and acts on it even if it produces great personal pain
• Interprets reality for self
• Is motivated to protect people from spiritual fraud
• Is very dedicated to God and the people who seek a relationship with him
• Commands respect of others for courage

"In a toxic faith system, no one is allowed to disagree.  If they ever try to speak out, they are labeled as complainers, negative thinkers, and not team players.  "Loyalty is equated with blind faith and complete agreement with the leader".  (p. 202) 

  

"Outcasts who challenge the delusion of the system are discredited immediately.  The toxic-faith system creates a lose-lose situation where the outcasts must give up perceptions of reality or be willing to face complete rejection.  Abandonment becomes the reward for trying to correct the ministry. 

Outcasts can interpret reality for themselves.  Even when their perception of reality contradicts that of hundreds and thousands of followers, they can clearly see the problems and press for solutions to those problems.  Outcasts are unimpressed by position or personhood.  They love God and want to protect his people and his institutions from spiritual fraud. 

Those who are so dedicated to God have little difficulty seeing others' dedication to ego and empires.  Yet they are forced to suffer for what they see because they refuse to watch people live a lie and abuse others.  No toxic-faith system can handle this keen insight and dedication to truth.  They must place their jobs and the church they love on the altar of sacrifice as they are forced to move on to a place free of toxic faith."  (p. 202)

I personally believe it can go either way.  My husband was a Berean first, and because he refused to submit to teaching that was not in line with the Word, he became the Outcast.  I think for me, it happened simultaneously!  As I began to question, I began to search the scriptures (Berean-ish), and soon became the Outcast as well.  I am forever grateful!  It is one of the most valuable life lessons I have ever learned, and I am a different (perhaps better) person because of it.

The authors of Toxic Faith offer this hope for us Berean-Outcasts:

"God honors those who are willing to sacrifice their comfort on the altar of what is right.  God has a special place in his heart for the heroes of a toxic-faith system.   Those who stand up for God and tell the world the emperor has no clothes will receive their reward sooner or later."  (p. 202)

Kevin Potts' Story

 I left in 2008 from Mars Hill Church. Their culture of abuse is frightening in its implications. Everything said on your blog [the Wartburg Watch], on Matthew Paul Turner's site, and on the Stranger is alarmingly accurate: the members are not encouraged to stand up to the leadership when it's acting with wrong motivations or wrong actions, they are told to remain quiet and to trust the leadership. There is no body to hold the leadership accountable to, and the church's authority structure is such that the only people to go to if you have an issue with one or more of its pastors is, unsurprisingly, another pastor. I can't imagine this being an environment, for anyone who takes a few moments to consider its implications, where anyone would feel safe expressing concerns about the leadership, let alone about Mark Driscoll.


For myself, my story is perhaps one of their earlier examples. At the time, I had been a member for nearly 8 years, having started at Mars Hill in 2000 and becoming a member just two months later with a much less rigorous membership process (which amounted to a quick 2-hour lesson from Driscoll on church leadership's structure, an indication of what being a member meant, handing out membership covenants to those attending, and letting us decide on our own if we wanted to become members). I had been having misgivings about the growth of the church and the increasing separation between the leadership and the congregation, but had largely kept this to myself.

Driscoll, in 2008, was preparing a sermon series entitled "Ask Anything", the intent being to set up a website where questions could be posted and voted on, with the top 5 questions (those that received the most votes) being the ones that Mark would build his preaching series on. Anonymous comments were allowed due to the software that was being used, and people used this to start bringing up questions about the firing of Paul Petry and probation of Bent Meyer that they felt they couldn't ask in the church itself, since they had been directly instructed by (then) pastor X, in an open letter to the members via the password-protected members' website (The City hadn't yet come into being, though it was close at the time), to remain quiet on the issue while the leadership worked to produce a unified document explaining their actions.

I made one comment on this site under the pseudonym of Kel, and had no further comments published. At the time, one person was using the title of "Concerned" in the comments, and was raising a bit more of a stink, though with some thoughtful and probing questions.

Around this time, I decided to transition away from the main Ballard campus over to the then-titled Wedgwood Campus, as it was geographically closer to where I lived (the campus became the Lake City Campus, which is now closed; its staff were largely absorbed into the Shoreline campus). I was serving as a stage manager in the morning for the Ballard campus, and had an exit interview with the head of the production department, XX. In this exit interview, a discussion of my discomfort with how the Petry/Meyer issue had been handled arose. I made a statement of "I have no interest in causing division. It would be easy to do so with how well connected I am in the church, but I have no interest in doing so."

This was communicated to senior leadership as "Kevin Potts indicated he's going to cause division in the church."

Shortly after that, I received an e-mail from the Pastor of Technology (and creator of The City). He asked me point-blank if I was "Concerned", the poster raising issues on the Ask Anything site. I indicated to him directly that I wasn't. A couple of days later he responded and indicated he thought I was, in fact, "Concerned", as that individual was making statements that echoed my exit interview with XX, as well as a statement I had made on the members' site in response to one member indicating it would be a shame if the leadership had to start tracking IP addresses between member posts and the anonymous comments on Ask Anything in order to figure out who were random posters and who were disgruntled members hiding behind pseudonyms. I indicated this wasn't a course that was wise to take, as there were people upset with the leadership, and such an action wouldn't engender the trust the leadership needed to get Mars Hill through the trying situation at the time.

This, according to Pastor of Tech, was me displaying an "unhealthy distrust for the leadership" at Mars Hill (eerily echoing the accusations levied against Paul Petry and Bent Meyer), and it was indicated that my membership was being put on suspension pending a meeting, as three elders had apparently concluded I was "in sin" (without ever having spoken to me first to hear my side of the story).

After much prayer and consideration, I chose to conclude my membership at Mars Hill Church. I sent an e-mail to XXX, as well as the then-head pastor of the campus I was transferring to. No "discipline contracts" were offered to me, as I don't think they'd have thought of something like that at the time. Some momentary communiques occurred between me and Pastor Q (who is now a Mars Hill pastor at their Albuquerque campus in New Mexico) shortly after both the Stranger and the Seattle Times had gotten ahold of me, as my name was on a list someone had circulated to those papers as people of interest to speak with regarding the truth, as we understood it, behind Paul and Bent's dismissals.

When I had spoken with Jonah Spangenthal-Lee from the Stranger, and Janet Tu from the Seattle Times, I had indicated in both instances that I didn't want my name used in their articles. I was still, at the time, living in a house owned by Mark Driscoll in Montlake, and didn't want my living situation jeopardized, as I didn't trust Mark or his assistant to do the right thing in light of this. In both discussions with the reporters, I only confirmed what they already knew, referring them to Mars Hill Church and Bent Meyer and Paul Petry for further discussion. Q eventually called me to find out if I was, in fact, the person who had spoken with the Stranger and the Seattle Times (and I doubt I was the only one who had), and I confirmed it for him, at which point he proceeded to lay a guilt trip on me, indicating I needed to go to the church and ask the forgiveness of the people I had harmed in talking with The Stranger (who he was sure to note to me "was no friend of Mars Hill, and no friend of Christ") and the Seattle Times.

Keep in mind I was already no longer a member at Mars Hill at this time, and yet he thought that he could still control me to the point of having me apologize to people I was no longer involved with in an attempt to repent of sin that it seemed he was the only one accusing me of, he and those he represented.

At a later point, Molly Worthen from the New York Times Sunday Magazine spoke with me. At that point all ties with Mars Hill were severed for me, and I would have suffered no ill consequences for speaking with her. I gave her my full permission to use my name in her article, which can be found at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/magazine/11punk-t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=4 Curiously, she chose not to use my name, though on the 4th page of the article in the link I gave you, I'm the member she referenced in the third paragraph, the member who "complained on an online message board and instantly found his membership privileges suspended".

I was able to get out before they implemented the kind of behavior that Andrew is now experiencing. I'm horrified to hear he's experiencing it. Feel free to use my name and my story here (though you may want to remove the pastors' names, as I have no ability to authorize their use) in a blog post if it would be remotely helpful to anyone else who's going through the horrors of attempting to separate from Mars Hill Church.

Our Story

Here is are easy links to our story:

Sophia's Story

UnReformed's Story

The Stranger Writes: Church or Cult?

Brendan Kiley, writer for The Stranger (and indie newspaper in the Seattle area), addresses the question we have all been asking ourselves.

The Stranger Article: Church or Cult?

Dear Church: Shut Up and Listen!

Dianna Anderson wrote this over at MPT:

http://matthewpaulturner.net/jesus-needs-new-pr/why-the-church-needs-to-shut-up-and-listen-a-guest-post

Makes me think of this:

Beauty from Ashes – Good News for the Oppressed

Isaiah 61:1-9

I have been thinking about this scripture a lot lately.  The first part is actually talking about Jesus, and is a prophecy about him that he then quotes in Luke 4:18. I have read this scripture many, many times, but in light of the last week or so, I see it differently.  The beginning is talking about Jesus, but isn’t our life purpose to be sanctified to be more like Him?

¹ The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is upon me, 
      for the LORD has anointed me 
      to bring good news to the poor. 
   He has sent me to comfort the brokenhearted 
      and to proclaim that captives will be released 
      and prisoners will be freed.^[a] 
 2 He has sent me to tell those who mourn 
      that the time of the LORD’s favor has come,^[b] 
      and with it, the day of God’s anger against their enemies. 

Is it not MY responsibility to bring Good News to the poor, to comfort the brokenhearted, to proclaim FREEDOM to those held captive?  How can I best do that in the context of my life?

 ³ To all who mourn in Israel,^[c] 
      he will give a crown of beauty for ashes, 
   a joyous blessing instead of mourning, 
      festive praise instead of despair. 
   In their righteousness, they will be like great oaks 
      that the LORD has planted for his own glory.

There are many lessons that have come out of the MH experience.  The Lord, in Isaiah, offers us beauty for ashes.  So here is my list of beautiful things that have come from the ashes of our MH experience:

• I have become a Berean alongside my husband (he’s always been one) Acts 17:11
• I have fallen in love with and learned to trust and run to the Word of God and want to live the Spirit-led life. I am grateful for and eager for the Holy Spirit’s direction, comfort, ministry and presence in my life. It is something I now know I believe in with such conviction that nobody will ever be able to convince me of anything else.
• I trust the gift of discernment God has given me.
• The realization and true conviction that I want to train my kids in godliness through my example and I want them to see me live out my faith in the context of everyday life, with everyday people. I do not want them to be in a church where they are taught elitism, but rather want them in a church where they are taught about the mercy, grace and love of God and how those gifts of God spurn us into holy obedience not out of fear, but out of love and gratefulness for the gifts He has given us.
• I feel convicted to seek justice for the oppressed and spiritually abused.  I cannot stand by silently any more.  I have read many other stories, and joined the “Fellowship of the Wounded”.
• I am less judgmental and able to have compassion for those who are suffering.  I have learned that the ground is TRULY level at the foot of the cross.
• My husband and I are united in a way we never have been before.
• I have (finally!) put my priorities in the right order.  My relationship with God (not the church), my husband, my kids, my extended family and friends, and then church.
• I no longer hold pastors who are in the spotlight in high esteem only because they are in the spotlight.
• I will never, out of desperation, accept instant friendships as being real.  True friendship develops over time.

What about you?  What beauty have you found in the ashes of your experience?

Questions

Yesterday I shared my story on The Wartburg Watch.  I am grateful to Deb and Dee for helping me find the courage to speak out and tell my story.  Today, I am very discouraged.  I guess I had the expectation that the telling of our story would be met with outrage. Battle cries.  Compassion.  A massive outpouring of support. The people at TWW have been amazing and supportive.  Beyond that, the silence has been deafening.

I spent the last several months asking God what I was supposed to do with this experience. What was the purpose? Why did it happen?  How can believers do this to other believers?

Is anyone listening? I am wondering where I go from here?  Do I keep shouting it from the rooftops? Do place it on the altar?

 Do I ask the hard questions of the people who have harmed me? Do I even bother when I know that doing so is risking further abuse?  Am I willing to risk them diverging private information about my husband and myself?  Did they do so already? Is it really possible to maintain the one friendship I still have, when I cannot be myself and express my pain?

Will others share their stories?  Is the pain so deep and the fear so great that they can’t?

How can I best glorify God in this situation?

Mars Hill Discipline Contract Makes It's Way Into the Light

A young man named Andrew who was a member at Mars Hill Ballard campus for approximately two years has come forward with a discipline contract he was given by elders at the Ballard campus.

The discipline contract is available in it's entirety and private follow up letter to members of MH posted on the City instructing them on how to properly deal with Andrew in public are available on Matthew Paul Turner's Blog.

Matthew 18:15 - "If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back."

Matthew Paul Turner - Mark Driscoll Part 1
Matthew Paul Turner - Mark Driscoll Part 2