The Results of Reconciliation

As most of you aware, Mars Hill posted, A Call for Reconciliation in the beginning of March. I filled out the form they provided a few days later. On March 28th The Wartburg Watch posted about how Mars Hill had taken so long to contact me. I received an email the next day from a representative of Mars Hill who apologized and said my response had been lost in a spam filter. Later that day I was emailed by Pastor Adam Christiansen to set up a meeting.

I had no expectations for this meeting. In my mind it was an experiment. Out of all the people who have shared their stories, I felt I was probably the safest to conduct this experiment since my time at Mars Hill was so brief. I felt that we were all curious to see if their post, “A Call for Reconciliation” was genuine or just a PR move.  I was curious what reconciliation with me meant for them. I tried my hardest (and admittedly failed a bit) to go into this meeting with no preconceived notions of how it would go. I wanted to act as a guinea pig and be able to report back to everyone reading Mars Hill Refuge about how the meeting went.

In my response to A Call for Reconciliation I listed the terms of meeting in a neutral location, and bringing along my old pastor for support. He completely understood my terms and told me we could meet where I wished and I could bring whoever I wished along. He told me he would also be bringing along another pastor, who ended up being Bill Clem, the lead pastor at the Ballard campus.

I was honestly very surprised at how the meeting went. They were both very humble and seemed to expect nothing from me. They asked to hear my story, and I told them what I have written here. Both of them seemed genuinely saddened by my experience, and apologized for the actions of others. They talked about where Mars Hill aspires to be and how they have missed the mark. The men I met with seemed like they really wanted Mars Hill to grow and change for the better. Our meeting has given me some hope.

My main question for them was to ask what reconciliation with me meant. I asked what they expected from our meeting. When I looked up the word reconcile the other day a couple of definitions really stuck out to me, “to win over to friendliness; cause to become amicable:” and, “to bring into agreement or harmony; make compatible or consistent:” With such opposing viewpoints I didn’t understand how I could be reconciled with them. When I told him these definitions and my thoughts, Bill spoke of living in the same neighborhood and focusing on similar desires for our community, instead of our differences. I left it at that during our meeting, but truthfully I feel that while I can let go of theological differences, I can’t ignore what I view to be abuse. Until the abuse stops, and until Mark Driscoll publicly apologizes for his bullying, there is no way I can ever be fully reconciled with Mars Hill. I wish I would have thought to say that then, but my feelings and thoughts weren’t completely gathered yet. 

While I was telling them my story, I said something that eluded to the fact that I don’t hold the complementarian view on marriage. Nothing was said at that moment, but later Bill did bring it up and spoke about his experience with marriage, and leadership in marriage. I had nothing against him sharing his experience with me, but I did feel as though he was trying to correct me, or change my viewpoint. The last thing I wanted was to descend into a theological battle so I left it at that. I did not feel like he was doing it out of anger at my views or pride. It is obviously a belief that is very important to him. This is the only part of our meeting I had issue with.

After our dialogue I feel that I have some more clarification into my own mindsets. I believe that Mark is the problem. He is purposeful to create idealism in young people, and I believe that idealism often breeds the abuse we have suffered. People say it isn’t Mark’s responsibility, but it is his own stated goal to inspire and lead young people (especially men), and this inspiration isn’t manifesting in a healthy manner. Our experiences are proof of that. 

I want to end this by saying I wish all the best for the men I met with. Though our views may still differ, I felt like I met with real human beings, not narcissistic theology-machines. I appreciated their willingness to meet with me and hear what I had to say. 

Guest Post: Facing Your Spiritual Abuser

Cindy, at the Under Much Grace blog has so kindly allowed us to re-post this article, entitled:

Facing Your Spiritual Abuser: Index of Posts About the Star Chamber and the Hot Seat

As we have seen in many of the stories here ( Kip's , for example), this is very much a reality.  Please stop over at Cindy's blog...but I must warn you...there is so much good information that you will need to have time on your hands!  Very educational.

For those that have answered A Call for Reconciliation, please take notes!

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Sometimes, members of a high demand group or a spiritually abusive church are called in to sessions of confrontation with their group leadership, pastors, and elders in order to intimidate them and to secure their compliance with group demands. And quite often, when people discover problems with manipulation, doctrine, or exploitation within their spiritually abusive church, they feel responsible to inform their leadership. Many people seek out their leaders to inform their leaders that they are leaving their group, just as a courtesy, to find personal closure, and sometimes, to hopefully make their spiritual abuser aware of the hurtful if not harmful nature of their actions – a personal courtesy to them.

Because of the authoritarian nature of spiritually abusive groups and the dynamics by which the leaders perpetuate control and coercion of the followers, group leaders generally react to this type of confrontation in very predictable ways. Such a system demands compliance with a certain set of dynamics, one of which demands complete perfection of the group, the way it does things, and the decisions made by the leaders. The group defines ultimate truth, so the group leadership speaks on God's behalf. The system demands complete devotion and compliance, requiring unquestioned obedience and complete submission to authority to any of their superiors on their chain of command. Because these dynamics demand that the follower assume fault at all costs, for the purposes of discussion, we have named the sessions of confrontation the “Star Chamber.”

Manipulative groups also make use of shame sessions that demand that the follower confess their faults to the group and the leadership. Deeply personal information elucidated in the “star chamber” can generally be extracted from group members because of the threatening nature of the confrontation sessions, what some high demand groups have formally called “the Hot Seat.”

If you're planning to confront a church leader that you suspect might be spiritually abusive, you will find this series of blog posts quite helpful. If you have advanced knowledge of the nature of a meeting to which you've been summoned, or if you are planning to confront manipulative church leaders, please take advantage of this information in advance. If you are recovering from this aspect of spiritual abuse which often proves to be quite difficult because of the moral questions that arise, you will likely find this information helpful to you as you work through the anger, grief, recovery, moving through your experience into triumph.

The many posts on the subject have been categorized to make them easier to navigate.

Thought Conversion During Confrontations

With a Manipulative Leader

(What is the Church Star Chamber and the Hot Seat?)

• When Persecution Comes and Thought Conversion Results (How the confrontation process can get you to change your thoughts, emotions, and behaviors)
•  When You're Summoned to the Church Star Chamber (Intimidating meetings with many church leaders, usually conducted under the guise of “the Matthew 18 process” as a discipline session)
• Thought Conversion on the Hot Seat (A process of interrogation that generally takes place during “star chamber” confrontation meetings with manipulative leadership – a formal practice in many high demand groups and religions)
• The Violence of Thought Conversion: Wrapped in Gentleness and in Cruelty (Sometimes the process of conversion through confrontation appears to be gentle and benign, though the group demands relinquishing of personal will, history, and ethics in order to meet the demands of the group)

Considerations and Protective Measures to Take

When You Encounter a Hot Seat / Star Chamber Meeting

• What Do You Risk When You Go to a Meeting? (Biderman's Chart of Coercion used as a model to identify and anticipate tactics used to manipulate and intimidate – limited discussion of Sovereign Grace Ministries/Mahaney and Mars Hill Church/Driscoll)
• If You Choose to Go to Star Chamber Confrontations with Ministers, At Least Be Knowledgeable About Abuse (The bare minimum of information to review about thedynamics of thought conversion and abusers when you've willingly chosen confrontation instead of walking away: links to summaries and blog entries)
• Practical Considerations for the Confrontation of a Pastor with Spiritually Abusive Tendencies (Ideas about how you can protect yourself and limit the damage)
  
  
  
  

  Questions About the

  
  

  Hot Seat / Star Chamber Experience

  
  

  • Do I Really See Spiritual Abuse All Around Me?
  • Does My Pastor Deliberately Use Thought Reform?
  • Does Someone Teach Thought Reform To Pastors Under the Guise of Good Christian Practice?
  • Don't Church Leaders Realize Just How Abusive They Really Are?
  • Working for a Religious Group or a Secular Employer Who Uses Manipulative Tactics.

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  Cynthia Mullen Kunsman is a nurse (RN, BSN), naturopath (ND) and seminary graduate (MMin) with a wide variety of training and over 20 years of clinical experience. She has used her training in Complementary and Alternative Medicine as a lecturer and liaison to professional scientific and medical groups, in both academic and traditional clinical healthcare settings. She also completed additional studies in the field of thought reform, including the study of hypnotherapy for both chronic pain management as well as its efficacy in the treatment of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) that is often associated with cultic group involvement. Her nursing experience ranges from intensive care, the training of critical care nurses, hospice care, case management and quality management, though she currently limits her practice to forensic medical record review and evaluation. Most of her professional efforts concern the study of manipulative and coercive evangelical Christian groups, the recovery process from thought reform, and PTSD associated with such involvement.

The Curious Case of "A Call to Reconciliation"

Why would Mars Hill issue A Call to Reconciliation, and then fail to respond to Kaelee, who was featured in the KOMO News story? 

From "A Call to Reconciliation" (emphasis mine):

"Naturally, we’ve been following these stories closely, and a handful of people have stepped out to discuss their experiences. Quoted in various sources are people who’ve given their stories anonymously. Since we don’t know who they are, we’d love to meet with them and serve them and begin a process of reconciliation. So please, if you’re reading this, do let us know who you are so we can do all we can to love you by sitting down to meet, listen, and serve. For the two mentioned in the KOMO story, we’d love to meet with you also to do the same."

Why, when I filled out the form asking whether or not they would be willing to meet with people under the terms I suggested in my previous post, Why I Won't Be Answering the "Call to Reconciliation", did they respond?  I had a pleasant conversation with the Director of Security/Exec. Assistant to Dave Bruskas via email.


A curious case indeed.

(Copies of form submissions available upon request)

Why I Won't Be Answering the "Call to Reconciliation"

At least not on those terms...

On Friday, Mars Hill posted A Call For Reconciliation.  Here is my response:

I am glad that Mars Hill has acknowledged that there are many people out here who have been hurt by their church.   I appreciate their call to reconciliation, however, I won't be answering it on those terms.

Please know that I pray regularly for Mars Hill and its leadership.  It is my greatest desire to see good come out of all of this.  I love many people who are still at Mars Hill, and I am glad that most of them are happy there.  The positive experience of some does not invalidate the very negative experience of others though. For every story I have posted here, there are stories I did not share, because the person shared their story in confidence.

The statement seemed to blur the lines and imply that all of the people speaking out against Mars Hill were under church discipline and are taking those matters public.  To clarify, this is the exception and not the rule, as in our case and most others that have been shared here, we were not, in fact, under church discipline.  And since, in this post as well as the last two responses PR issued, they continue to stand by their stance on church discipline, one which I do not now or will I ever agree with, I am unable to be reconciled in the way that they wish to reconcile me.

Please know, that while I do not wish to be reconciled to Mars Hill in the way they understand it, that I am allowing God to give me a heart of forgiveness.  It is a process but I am daily growing it.  And I know that God is more than capable of healing my heart and helping me to forgive.

What the Mars Hill pastors fail to realize is that those of us that have told our stories about our negative experiences at Mars Hill would attribute the abuses we experienced to our Community Group Leaders, Elders & Pastors.  We trusted them to treat us with love and grace then, and that is not what happened.  Why should we trust them to now?  Forgiveness is not trusting someone who has hurt you.  And forgiveness is not neglecting justice for the oppressed.

I am not comfortable submitting my personal information on their form.  And I am not comfortable sitting down and meeting with Mars Hill elders on their terms.  I did not choose to subject myself to meetings with the CG leader when I left for the same reason I do not want to do it now.  It is not clear in their statement whether they are trying to get me to repent and be reconciled to Mars Hill, or if they wish to repent and be reconciled to me.

The only conditions under which I would ever consider the call to reconciliation are as follows:
1) The meeting was held in a neutral place, with an elder I am comfortable meeting with.
2) I am free to bring someone along, be that a trusted advisor, pastor at my new church, counselor, etc.
3) The meeting will not become a theological debate over "open-handed" or secondary issues that we may disagree on.
4) I am free to write about my experience afterwards.

My email is, and has always been, accessible through this blog.  While I maintain anonymity here, I am confident that my former pastors and CG leader know who I am from the details of my story.  I have never been contacted for apologies, reconciliation or the like.   However, I do not need an apology or reconciliation (as Mars Hill would define it) to forgive.

If any of my readers choose to pursue reconciliation through the website, please know that I will support you and pray for you and assist you in any way that I can.  We all need to handle our situation as the Holy Spirit leads us.