Monday, March 19, 2012

Kip's Story

My wife and I were faithful members of Mars Hill Church including active in Community Group, Service Ministries, special events, etc.  We were attending an ever increasing CG that would discuss often its need to split.  My CG leader then approached me about considering becoming a leader.  He informed me that I was already considered a ‘leader’ of sorts within the group.  My wife and I prayed and sought wisdom in launching a group of our own.  After lots of prayer and consideration we decided to answer the call for more leaders.  I attended a few training sessions, completed some course material and lead a few CG sessions.
Then it came time for my pastoral interview.  I met my CG leader and a campus pastor early one morning before work at a local coffee shop.  Pastor X’s first question was, “How is the training going so far?”  I proceeded to tell him things were going okay.  I went onto say that I was very humbled by the opportunity to lead a community group but that in some ways I felt inexperienced and under-prepared.  The pastor stopped me and started grilling me on why I felt that way.  He then informed me that I was “not living up to my true potential and everything God has called me to be.”  He went on “do you truly believe God calls people?” “I do” I said.  “Well then you’re not living up to all that God has called you to be.”  “Hmmm,” I thought, okay I imagine that’s true.  The more I answered his questions, the more ammunition it seemed to provide him and the more he would grill me.  I noticed he didn’t really have an agenda or any questions he was reading from and that his only agenda was to confront and attack any ‘sinfulness’ he sensed from my responses.  At one point he stopped and said “I hope you don’t feel like I’m attacking you… because we do this to all of our leaders.”  After an hour or more, the ‘interview’ was over and I had to leave for work.  I left feeling confused and unsure of what had happened.  My wife called to ask how it went, but I could only reply “I don’t know.”  To this day, it is the strangest interview I have ever been to inside or outside the church.  

That Sunday I asked my CG leader how things went.  He would tell me that the pastor has some “concerns” about me and “why” I want to be a CG leader.  He suspected I was doing it simply to ‘please’ man.  I was thoroughly confused but then was reminded back to a conversation I had had with my CG leader months prior about trying not to please others.  I decided to go home and send an email to the pastor asking for further clarification since I was not doing this to please MH.  I also expressed a few concerns about how the interview was conducted.  Because of this experience and other observations, I suspected MH believed in order to build men up, they must bully them and break them down.  His reply came that he had perhaps misrepresented himself and that he wasn’t simply trying to “sin-hunt.”   He asked if we could meet again to get on the same page – which I agreed to.  A day later he says he needs to involve some more pastors for greater accountability.  At this point I decided that perhaps getting further involved wasn’t the right move.  When I tried to rescind my name from the training process and decline to meet further – I was accused of ‘running’ from community and my leaders who were trying to love me.

So to prove that we weren’t running, we agreed to meet.  When we arrived a little early to our meeting, Pastor X got frantic and explained that it wasn’t possible until all parties were available.  This was getting more bizarre and we began feeling more intimidated by all of this.  What had I done?  Hadn’t I just pointed out some concerns about their ‘training’ process?  Wasn’t this an ‘open-handed’ issue?   I knew they would probably disagree with my concerns but at least we could shake hands and agree to disagree.  We were brought to their downstairs offices where we sat nervously making chit chat with our CG leader.  Finally the door opens and both pastors usher us into this tiny office with 2 couches facing each other.  The door locks behind us where we find ourselves in a room with black walls and a sword hanging above the couch opposite us.  Pastor X sat back and let the new Pastor Y do all the talking.  He quickly looked over my email and then sized us up by questioning us about attendance, serving, CG participation, etc.  He then asked me what the issue was at which point I did my best to explain what problems I sensed with the training process.  I expressed my concern about building leaders up by breaking them down and that it wasn’t good or healthy for us as a church.  He looked at me and said “Then how would you do it?”  After my concerns were quickly dismissed, the real purpose for the meeting could get underway.   Pastor Y stopped for a second, looked at me intently and said “God is telling me that your real issue is pride.  You have a pride problem that you need to deal with.   You came in here with your fists up ready to fight didn’t you?  Well you now have a chance to respond either in pride or humility – what’s it going to be?”  He must have sensed that I was feeling intimidated, but with 2 pastors and my CG leader staring me down and grilling  – I guess you could say I felt a little defensive.   My CG leader chimed in with a laundry list of items where I had “failed” him both in the training process and outside of.   Pastor Y repeated the question “will you respond in pride or humility?”  Pastor X on the other side yelling “What’s Jesus saying! What’s Jesus saying!”  I started to feel like I was suffocating or like a giant weight was crushing me.   I finally broke.  The tears start running and at once my wife and I and everyone else in the room was relieved that I had admitted my sin.  We were convinced that my concerns were irrelevant because I was prideful…  Everyone patted themselves on the back and we prayed together.   But from the moment we left, I felt sick to my stomach like something wrong had just happened.   What happened there was anything but kind or loving.  To be sure, it was the scariest most divisive most manipulative experience I have ever been through.  It was more of an interrogation than anything.  But to answer their question: “yes” I am prideful and at times need repentance from it and will my whole life.  But does that negate my concerns about their training process?  Or perhaps these things really weren’t open-handed...

Later that week my CG leader calls trying to follow-up with an offer to provide assistance in repenting from my pride.   When I declined his help, it only prompted more calls, emails and text messages.  Things started to get even more awkward and uncomfortable at church.  We decided to stay on the outskirts, find a new community group etc.  They went as far as saying that I needed help in my repentance.  Never mind the ministry and work of the Holy Spirit or verses like Philippians 1:6.  What did they want from me?  I imagined the only thing that would satisfy them was to lie before them and recant.  We couldn’t believe what was happening.  We started to suspect that the Lord may be leading us away from MH.   But we didn’t want to accept it since all of our friends and some of our family attended here.  This was our home.  I demanded they stop harassing me, but it only persisted.  Eventually I received an email from Pastor X entitled “Your Unrepentant Heart” in which he would inform me that I was being placed under church discipline.  Pastor X even went so far as to tell me that even if I left and went to a new church it would follow me as “church discipline is binding in heaven.”   By this point friends were avoiding and deserting us.  We knew it was time to leave. 

I could write much more about the painful trial that ensued but I prefer to make much more about how God faithfully protected and provided for us.  Some days it’s still raw and I have to pray for the Lord's help in not growing bitter.  Two years later we still receive disdainful glances from MH members who either know we left or find out we used to attend.  I’m sure the pastors felt they were doing us a service, but they did so at the cost of abuse.  I would later find out that what we went through is considered by some to be spiritual abuse.

18 comments:

  1. So sorry for you. Yes, you were subjected to spiritual abuse. Jesus and the much-forgiven Peter and Paul would never have subjected a fellow saint to this emotional manipulation and cruelty; it's simply not love.

    Many former and current members of SGM churches would recognize this tactic immediately, as it's been S.O.P. in SGM for years. (see SGMSurvivors.com archives for many testimonies similar to yours.)

    Glad you've escaped! May God heal you deep within with revelations of his powerful love for you.

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  2. Wow, thank you for sharing your story. Calling disagreement or discomfort "pride" and demanding repentance is a cruel, and unfortunately common, strategy to gain control. I'm so glad you and your wife got out.

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  3. Thank you for sharing this! I'm so sorry for what you've endured and hope you find genuine healing. I get so angry with Mars Hill because their abuse causes people to doubt Christ. And Christ is so good and so different. So gracious and unconditional. I hope you grow stronger in Him as you heal from their abuse. God bless!

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  4. My husband dealt with similar mind games. My amazing husband... walking around thinking everything that he didn't understand was a pride issue within himself. My old pastor may not have said questioning is sinning, but somehow it's implied...

    Kip - reach for your identity in Jesus! Know that you have the Holy Spirit, and your faith does not have to be in question!

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  5. Because of this experience and other observations, I suspected MH believed in order to build men up, they must bully them and break them down.

    That is the basis of forced indoctrination, commonly called "brainwashing". Like military boot camp, break down everything that exists in the personality so you can remake it from scratch in the Correct Image.

    Pastor X even went so far as to tell me that even if I left and went to a new church it would follow me as “church discipline is binding in heaven.”

    i.e. "My Curse Is Upon You!!!!"

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  6. I have been following up on the abuse of Mars Hill leadership and Mark Driscoll. I would like to encourage you that you are not alone and that many people are praying for the exile of God's people. God has given me a burden for you Kip, along with Joyful Exile, Mars Hill Refuge, and Unreformed. I am standing in the gap in prayer for all of you. I know in my heart that God has a plan for each and one of you.

    Jesus is closer to you all as the mention of his Name.

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  7. I hear you. I was raised in an extremely abusive situation in our home church from a very early age, only escaping in my early 20's. I am now more than a decade "out" and I still feel the lingering effects sometimes of the abuse I suffered. What you described with the room/doors locking/intimidation is very very common, unfortunately, and intimidation is their key to compliance.

    Twisted Scripture is an amazing book, and as a spiritual abuse survivor I am begging you to find it at alocal library and read it.

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  8. Kip: I suspect that this has nothing to do with God/god. but all about men. Men with muscles and power, men who are proud to be men and no more. I also dare you to leave this religion of abuse and truly look at this from the outsiders view. If a Jew or Mormon or Muslim did this to you, would you not have called the cops? I choose to leave this abuse and this God. Please, do yourself a favor.

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  9. I guess I just don't understand how and/or why good people fall into these situations. Why do they feel so beholden to the judgment and approval of mere men who pose as authority figures. I am a christian who studies the bible independent of any church and don't feel the lesser for it. I see church as a social outlet for like-minded people regarding religion, and not a requirement to being 'a good christian.' I can also understand the benefits of mutual bible study, but I can interpret the bible without the help of some autocratic pastor, but that's just me. I guess I just find it fascinating that good people allow their religious leaders to bully/guilt/judge them concerning religion. They are, after all, mere mortal men with no more direct knowledge from God than I. I must attend some MH services to get better insight. Fascinating.

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    1. I don't know if pain and confusion can be reduced to "fascinating." If it were a study you were doing for your masters, maybe... I find it sad and disturbing, as well, as humbling that I went through something similar and wouldn't wish my experience on anybody. Yet, God in His wisdom, uses my experience to be there for others going through similar situations, to know what to pray for and cry with them, share their burden, and keeps me from being anything more than a mere mortal man.

      It sounds like solid ground you are standing on, and praise God that He has placed you there. And I do fervently hope you won't have to ever feel the pain of having to discover that the people around you that you trusted to love God and love people are stuck in the trap of being abusive. Believe me, it can take you by surprise and destroy what you thought you were "standing on."

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    2. Similar situation as in controlling persona, not the being locked in a room. That has to be extremely traumatic; your brain probably can't even process what is going on, though, your body may be telling you to run.

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  10. It's interesting that the first parallel that springs to mind when I hear all this, is that of the International Church of Christ, and the way they 'discipled' people.

    The other thing of note is that I think that Mars Hill have taken the teaching of Tim Keller about the sin beneath the sin, and twisted it into a highly introspective tool that then gets used as a power play between leaders.

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  11. Pastor Y stopped for a second, looked at me intently and said “God is telling me that your real issue is pride. You have a pride problem that you need to deal with. You came in here with your fists up ready to fight didn’t you? Well you now have a chance to respond either in pride or humility – what’s it going to be?” He must have sensed that I was feeling intimidated, but with 2 pastors and my CG leader staring me down and grilling – I guess you could say I felt a little defensive. My CG leader chimed in with a laundry list of items where I had “failed” him both in the training process and outside of. Pastor Y repeated the question “will you respond in pride or humility?” Pastor X on the other side yelling “What’s Jesus saying! What’s Jesus saying!” I started to feel like I was suffocating or like a giant weight was crushing me. I finally broke.

    In Scientology, this is called a "Gang Bang Sec Check" and is used to smell out "SPs" (traitors and enemies of Scientology). The "Training Process" at Mars Hill didn't include holding the cans of an Elron Hubbard E-Meter while being "bull-baiting audited"... or did it?

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  12. All I can say is this is bizarre!"

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  13. I am reading this with my mouth hanging open in utter disbelief. This is messed up. Shouldn't any church's policy be to support its up-and-coming leaders, show them understanding, and help them achieve their full potential? So if you don't show absolute agreement and complete self-confidence in your leadership skills from the get-go, they respond by treating you like a verbal punching bag? What kind of leaders do they imagine this treatment encourages?

    The door locks behind us where we find ourselves in a room with black walls and a sword hanging above the couch opposite us.

    I feel like I'm suddenly reading a novel about secret societies and conspiracy theories. Next thing you know, they'll be asking for the secret handshake and the password.

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  14. Wow! So many signs of classic spiritual abuse all in one place! It's good you escaped when you did, because so many people live in the yo-yo, rollercoaster world of spiritual abuse for years - and are greatly damaged when they finally escape or are spewed out. The intimidation and manipulation here is off the charts. Glad you made it out and wish you the best in your new, free life.

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  15. Kip,
    I am just appalled by how you were treated. My first thought was, how could you stay and not just get up and walk out on these pastors whose conduct was so unChristlike? My first thought was that you needed to the not just get up and walk out--you needed to RUN. Run from these offensive, condescending people who are obviously on a power trip and truly perverted in their faith. Yet I then remembered my own abuse which I endured for three years and hoped it would change. It didn't and staying longer only made it take longer for my wounds to heal. Anyway, I am glad you and your wife escaped from such demeaning, abusive people. I pray that you have sought healing from the One who loves you unconditionally.

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  16. "Pastor X even went so far as to tell me that even if I left and went to a new church it would follow me as “church discipline is binding in heaven.”"

    Your response to Pastor X should have been: "I have repented of all known sins before Jesus Christ. He has forgiven me and His blood had cleansed me. SATAN YOUR ACCUSATIONS AND CONTRACTS AGAINST ME ARE NULL AND VOID BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS!!!"

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