Why We Are Here
Welcome to Mars Hill Refuge. We exist to allow a place for people who have left Mars Hill to tell their stories. This is meant to be a safe haven for those who have been wounded by their experience with Mars Hill Church. We have our own stories (see Kaelee's Story and Sophia's Story). We have found many stories in various places on the internet, but we believe that those who are starting their "exodus" from Mars Hill need a place to find stories like theirs. When we started seeing red flags, we were very confused and felt "crazy" because you become so immersed in Mars Hill "culture" that you are not sure...
We have no desire to be a watchdog blog. While we do feel that there are many things wrong at Mars Hill and with Mark Driscoll's twisted "gospel", we do not want to focus on him but on becoming more Christ-like and helping others discern the truth that sets them free. There are many wonderful blogs that intelligently address these issues. If you would like to participate in those discussions, you can find links to them on our "Blogroll" page.
Would you like to tell your story? Please click on the "More Stories" link for more information.
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I am not not a Mars Hill member nor do I attend, however I don't see how this website at all furthers the kingdom... it really only hurts. It is better to let God sit in judgement for those who have wronged him or have mislead. This is not your job. You have put Christians hypocracy on a shelf for all to see, including atheists and ppl searching, as another nail in the coffin to NOT be accept Christ. However good you feel your intentions are, you are only doing harm. I hope you are ready to face this judgement as well.
ReplyDelete- Michelle C.
Hi Michelle,
DeleteThanks for your comment. I invite you to read this post:
http://marshillrefuge.blogspot.com/2012/02/you-should-just-be-quiet.html
I sincerely agree with Michelle. Nothing you are doing is helping. All churches are imperfect because they are composed of humans. You will never find the "perfect church", but I believe Mars Hill is doing an amazing job of sharing Christ with the nation. That is their ultimate goal, and everything you are doing is fighting against their efforts of doing that. I hope you realize that gossiping about a church is not going to dissolve it. And if Mars Hill has ever wronged someone I am sure it was not intentional at all. If you really studied the church and Driscoll I believe you would see the love of Christ pouring from their lives.
Delete-Allie J
Dear Michelle and Sophia,
ReplyDeleteWhat a beautiful righteous desire to love and be concerned for the precious Body of Christ - what we are! Jesus, our Lord, loves us beyond our wildest imagination! He watches over us with great zeal and jealousy! His harshest words were directed toward the so called shepherds of His day who abused and wounded His people. His list of woes was public and searing! The apostles, too, publicly called out wrong behavior and false teaching to rebuke, call for repentance, and to warn the flock. The Truth is more than able to stand up to scrutiny. True leaders of His Church, recognize their weakness and sin and humbly repent while false leaders remain stiff-necked and self-righteous. Woe to us when we hide, pretend and dismiss wrongdoing. Sophia is to be commended. Would that Mars Hill Church would step up to the plate, own their harmful behavior, repent, and make amends as best they can. That would be the right response and a most powerful demonstration of the gospel! Lord Jesus, may it be!
I can't count the many times that Mark has owned up to his shortcomings, admitting his sin and failure.He constantly prays publicly that God would give him strength and grace and to change his heart. Only God know whether or not this is sincere, but as far as we should be concerned this answers your comments below. Please put yourself in his shoes. It's hard to imagine the pressure of the public eye that is on him and his family. If only we could respond as well. -Josh B
Delete"True leaders of His Church, recognize their weakness and sin and humbly repent while false leaders remain stiff-necked and self-righteous. Woe to us when we hide, pretend and dismiss wrongdoing. Sophia is to be commended. Would that Mars Hill Church would step up to the plate, own their harmful behavior, repent, and make amends as best they can."
As long as it furthers the Gospel and our true submission/freedom to and in Christ- continue on what you are doing. But always step back and check on the status of your hearts-we cannot remain in bitterness for so long. But yes-others must be warned too. I myself likes the online messages of Pastor Driscoll and even recommend Mars Hill as a good model of one church-many campuses. But i did not know the abusive and cult-like atmosphere being cultivated there. Nor with CJ MAhaney's church on their view of complementarian relationships
ReplyDeleteLook, i'm sorry Sophia, but I read your story and a lot of what you and your husband experienced could potentially happen at any church you go to. You are never going to find a perfect church. I just left a church recently. I wasn't happy with things about it. Does that mean I go and make a blog and try to tear it down? no. I seek to forgive and move on.
ReplyDeleteThis only tears down and discourages the body of Christ. Every church has flaws and problems and that doesn't mean you go and make a blog about it and broadcast to the world a distorted image of a church that isn't entirely true. If you are a true believer you would seek to forgive what the christians (your brothers and sisters in Christ) at Mars Hill church did to you and just move on. This whole blog wreaks of bitterness. I feel embarrassed that you created this blog just to tear down Mars Hill Church. Many, many lives have been changed through God using this church. There are many churches that I disagree with but I don't make a deliberate effort to tear them down like this. It's petty. Forgive, love, move on.
Anonymous 2:09 AM,
DeleteAre you serious?
Look, I have also left an abusive church and didn't make a blog about it. Do you know why? Because the reach of that church was only local, within it's own city. But I'll guarantee, through word of mouth, that the abuses of that church are known within that city. And those abuses should be known. People need to be warned about abusive systems and to not get entangled in them without knowing what it's about.
The difference between Mark Driscoll's church and the churches you and I left is that Mark is not content to stay within his own city. He's reaching out nationally and internationally to spread his harmful doctrine and filthy interpretations of the Song of Solomon as far as he can. And you are telling us that we cannot warn people concerning the abuses and very un-Christian practices that he engages in, in order to make himself more popular (himself, not Jesus) and get money out of as many people as he can?
Seriously, you are telling us that when a movement is heading for disaster and it is hurting people by the droves that we are not allowed to raise a warning and let people know just how heartless and un-Christlike the Mars Hill machine really is?
If you were truly a believer, you would also be raising the alarm against this ministry that props up bullies and tramples the weak.
But I see that you are more concerned with saving face and looking good.
Whatever.
Keep looking good if it makes you happy.
We'll keep warning people against Mark Driscoll because we are actually concerned over their souls.
What truly shocks me are the people who speak out in defense of MH and Driscoll. He is a cult leader, much like David Koresh, Kip McKean (Boston Church of Christ) & Marshall Applewhite (Heaven's Gate). Driscoll may spew the gospel & slant it to make it seem legit, but, he is running the lives of the people under his command.
DeleteI'm going to go ahead and assume that anyone who defends Driscoll are MH members who have been brainwashed. I've seen it first hand and he DOES brainwash. People need to be made aware.
Even at the different branches of his church, they show videos of him preaching his messages. If you were to go to a mainstream church like Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, etc. would you see a video of a specific "leader" of their church? No, you would not. That is because the focus is on God and the gospel of the Bible.
What some of you are suggesting (who support MH or Driscoll) is that people just "Drink the Kool Aid" and don't ask questions! Beware people & WAKE UP!
Thanks, Megan.
DeleteThat's the assumption that I make.
Anyone coming here accusing the wounded here of bitterness and unforgiveness and even questioning whether or not they even love the Lord... all these accusers are nothing more than Mark Driscoll apologists. No matter how much they try to say other wise, we know them by their fruit.
Anyone who wants to whip a wounded and moaning sheep into silence using catch words like "bitter" and "self-righteous" is a false comforter who worships the false shepherd, Driscoll. The Driscoll who inspires fear of himself in his followers and scatters those who will not drink his Kool Aid.
Jeremiah 23:4 I will also raise up shepherds over them and they will tend them; and they will not be afraid any longer, nor be terrified, nor will any be missing,” declares the Lord.
5 “Behold, the days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch;
And He will reign as king and act wisely
And do justice and righteousness in the land.
May all those destroyed by Driscoll find the righteous Branch and replace their understanding of the ultimate fighter Jesus with a true knowlege of who our wise, just and righteous God is.
"Look, I have also left an abusive church and didn't make a blog about it. Do you know why? Because the reach of that church was only local, within it's own city. But I'll guarantee, through word of mouth, that the abuses of that church are known within that city. And those abuses should be known. People need to be warned about abusive systems and to not get entangled in them without knowing what it's about.
DeleteThe difference between Mark Driscoll's church and the churches you and I left is that Mark is not content to stay within his own city. He's reaching out nationally and internationally to spread his harmful doctrine and filthy interpretations of the Song of Solomon as far as he can."
Thank you! My life experience and my concerns exactly. Same situation, different lives. People need to wake up and realize anything associated with Mark Driscoll, however good his theology is meant to be, could head the same way as Mars Hill has. And if they think Mars Hill is healthy, boy are they drunk with the cool-aid. I'm with John MacArthur on this one- so glad there are a few good men out there, however old and conservative they are!
This needs to go viral on facebook: http://www.gty.org/resources/articles/A398
PS- the issue is, AND I know those of you who have been burnt by Mark D will react to this with pain and feel rage and hate because you are hurting, BUT, since he is not my pastor and has only offended me as part of womankind rather than personally by name or misuse of authority over me, the point of my concern is that he needs help! He is a brother in Christ, if he truly believes, and as a person made in the image of God, it grieves me that the church overall is enabling his acting out.
No human being has the right to say "Jesus Christ commands you [women to perform a certain sexual act]". But he did, and he has never shown a godly sorrow for such arrogance towards women, nor for his sermons on Nehemiah. Instead Mars Hill issued a "Call to Reconciliation" on THEIR terms, and that is worldly sorrow- a PR campaign- nothing more or less.
For the record, I have no problem with that sexual act, just a HUGE problem when I am told something that contradicts the mutual submission of the marriage bed per 1 Corinthians 7.
Mark Driscoll needs help. It hurts me that no one in leadership at Mars Hill is listening to these concerns.
What I see is a lot of self-righteous and pious people posting on here. Get over yourselves.... Go back yo your "christian bubbles." You have no compassion(nor do you care) for others who have been hurt through church abuse. Nobody wants to here your rubbish.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous July 25th 4:32 PM: "Nobody wants to here your rubbish."
DeleteFirst of all, Anony 4:32 PM, let's get one thing straight. In declaring that "Nobody wants to hear your rubbish," you have taken on the exalted position of speaking for everybody.
Hate to break it to you, Anony... But you absolutely do not speak for everybody. But rather, by declaring and/or assuming that you do, you display your own inflated view of yourself.
You really can only, honestly declare that YOU don't want to read what is going on here. In which case, I have great news for you. No one here is forcing you to stay and accept anything written here. You have the freedom to to flit and flee along to some other blog that you DO want to read and that can bring you the happiness you so desperately need. If you have experienced church abuse that this blog doesn't speak to, there are plenty of others out there to look at that might be helpful
If, however, what you are really saying is that you DISAGREE with what is going on here, then drop the juvenile accusations, name calling, and attempts to shame these good people into silence and actually engage in a debate/conversation here. Otherwise you you will only come across as a worthless troll who has nothing useful to say to anyone concerning anything.
Hopefully your week is improving.
huh?
DeleteMara, Wow really, Mara. Are you acting Christ like...NOT. So I'd say you're being hpocritical and judgemental as you try and JUDGE my intentions of being a so-called worthless troll. Let me tell ya, that's real Christianity right there...NOT.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I wasn't even talking about your post. But the REAL Mara has come out. You proclaim of being a christian but you don't act like it.
Please read what I actually wrote instead of inferring what you think I wrote or what you want to accuse me of writing (that I didn't). I said that you come across like a troll not that you were a troll. I was giving you a chance to prove that you weren't.
DeleteHowever, you go straight toward judging my heart and lobbing your insults at me. So far, insulting and shaming people is all I see you doing here.
You are so obviously sidestepping the real issues by attacking people that it's hard to take you seriously and it's hard NOT to think that, yeah, you are just a troll that I should dismiss out of hand.
But out of Christian charity (that you somehow think you reek with and that I somehow lack) I'll give you another chance to actually deal with the issues here rather than just coming in here insulting people and thinking that YOU somehow represent Christ.
Here's the problem. Mars Hill is producing a great host of wounded people due to some bad doctrinal stands, lousy understanding of discipleship, and from serious scripture twisting. Some of the wounded are coming here to find healing.
They need to be left the heck alone by people who don't have a clue.
And yes, I'll stand up and tell the clueless to back off the wounded sheep and I will say it loud, long, and strong. Leave the wounded alone, let them heal.
If you want to call defending the wounded as not acting like Christ, knock yourself out. The problem is your words mean nothing to me because I know they aren't intended to produce any actual Christlike qualities within me. They are intended to shut me up since you don't like it that I took you to task for attacking and insulting people here and suggested that you either deal with the issues on this blog or move on down the line.
So are you going to deal with the issues or just sputter and spout more insults and attack people and situations you know nothing about?
In spite of what you many think, I'm hoping that you aren't a troll, that you are actually a person of substance that can present your case (of whatever it is you don't like around here) some other way than through shaming an insults.
And by the way, MARA, I wasn't shaming anyone and clearly I'm for the underdog and the abused. YOU MARA, clearly have issues. Major issues...
Delete"Otherwise you you will only come across as a worthless troll who has nothing useful to say to anyone concerning anything."
DeleteThat sounds very clearly worded and appropriate for a forum such as this. Mara sounds to me like she is sticking up for the truth-that you are making yourself look bad-, and she avoided personal attack. Anonymous, you have made this personal, so I am calling you out for behaving as a troll with issues.
Bullying is for the playground, not for adult conversations. If you cannot take an honest warning without getting personal in response, you only make yourself look bad.
I keep opening windows of opportunity for you to engage in an actual conversation and say what it is that is upsetting you rather than attacking. You just keep attacking.
ReplyDeleteI kept trying to keep the dialog open while at the same time making clear that the insulting and the (yes) shaming tactics that you are engaging here will not be tolerated. But you just keep playing the victim and attacking.
Honestly, I prefer that you attack me than anyone else here. I can take it and have actually ministered to the deeply wounded before. So if your attacks are truly from that deep place of wounding, then hopefully you will understand that once you stop the full-on attack, we can talk. Until then, you are just spinning your wheels and not helping yourself or anyone else. Note: I am not telling you that you don't have the right to be angry. If indeed, you are one of those deeply wounded, you have much more anger to go through. I'm just saying that we need to find better ways for you to express that anger. Because simply attacking innocent bystanders for things none of them had anything to do with only adds to the problems rather than alleviates any pain.
Whatever pain and suffering you have experienced, whatever abuse you have suffered, I truly hope you find healing for your soul. Perhaps what you need is here. Perhaps it isn't. None of us will know until you actually say what you are angry about rather than just displaying over and over again how angry you are.
Whatever you do on your road to wholeness and healing here or elsewhere, always remember this: Your healing never starts with attacking other wounded. attacking the wounded lambs of Jesus only closes doors of opportunity and stands in the way of finding a support network.
Clearly Mara, you lack clarity about yourself. I know the person you are. You maybe able to fool others with your condensending, back handed comments but you don't fool me. You also refuse to take any responsiblity for your comments.
ReplyDeleteYou are projecting, Mara. What you are accusing of me doing is what you are doing. Read your comments. That's if you are not too blinded by them...But most of your kind is. The Bible says by ones fruits you will know them. I don't see any fruits, Mara, just condensending, backhanded, munipulative comments.
Well, Anony, I'm glad you have it all figured out. I'm glad you are so clear on all things after so little. I'm glad you feel so confident in yourself that you can lam-bast every one here and call what they they say rubbish and that you have Godlike insight into my very soul.
DeleteIf you want to talk doctrine, or why you love Driscoll so much that you have to be such a hater here I'll be glad to talk and debate any of these issues.
But if all you want is to be rude and insulting avoiding all issues and any substance then yes, I'm done wasting my time on you. Anyone can be loud, obnoxious, and insulting. But it take just a bit of effort to actually engage in a two way conversation.
Since you are so far superior to all of us here, why don't you take all your great knowledge and understanding somewhere else and grace those people with you rapier wit and engaging personality. I'm sure you will be better appreciated elsewhere. Especially if you actually share any golden insight you have with them rather than just insulting them and being so ridiculously ugly.
Hi Mara,
DeleteWhen considering response to such as "Anonymous July 27, 2012 7:56 AM" please consider the response that Jesus gave those who falsely accused Him - I call it "tacit rebuke". A study of the Gospels considering how Jesus actually did respond to those who came to Him is a good thing.
Take care!
Unknown,
DeleteOkay.
Curiousity had gotten the best of me.
Do you mind elaborating?
To the various Annonymouses: If you come onto a website by and for people who have suffered devastating spiritual abuse, it would be a lot better if you could come in a spirit of gentleness and understanding. Dismissing their experiences, telling them it could happen anywhere, judging them, calling them names-- and then attacking them when they react-- are not helpful at all.
ReplyDeleteIf you think there may be a misunderstanding, say, "hey, I didn't mean it like you took it!" not "You obviously have issues." Of course people who have been spiritually abused have issues! Most of us do. Every human being has buttons that you can push to get them to respond in defensiveness and anger. When you push those buttons, it's hardly charitable to then blame the person for going off.
Those who have been abused ought to be given even more mercy, rather than having their honest reactions to insensitive, hurtful comments judged.
When was the last time you tried contacting a MHC Pastor/Elder to attempt to reconcile? Romans 12:18, Hebrews 12:14.
ReplyDeleteI'm quite puzzled by your site. I can't quite put my finger on it but it seems like you almost think Mars Hill is a cult/something from Satan? If so, are you doing truly objective research prior to making massive conclusions like that? If you don't believe it is, then why violate the scripture above (and others) to just voice concerns with a Church that 'isnt-quite-on-team-satan-but-still-pretty-bad'.
I'm confused, and am praying for all the hurt people posting.
Personally, the way the "Call to Reconciliation" was worded made it clear to me (and I have nothing to do with Mars Hill except as a concerned evangelical)- but to make my point, having read the PR response of Mars Hill to those who are hurting, I wouldn't contact them for reconciliation because it sounds like they want you to meet on their turf under their authority.
DeleteIf they truly wish to reconcile, they need to be willing to meet with people at their new church, with their new pastor, and have the humility to admit they may have mishandled the things those burnt by the church profess to be hurt by. They need to be willing to reconcile mutually, not justifying themselves or trying to cover up.
But when people can be told they are (I QUOTE) "sinning by questioning", or when the lead pastor teaches other pastors that it's ok that there's a "pile of dead bodies" behind Mars Hill due to people not getting on board with the [HIS] program, or when elders get dismissed for disagreeing with said lead pastor, and told they are in sin for not trusting the leadership, yeah, I'd stay well away from "reconciling" under those conditions.
Pray for Mars Hill and Mark Driscoll too- I see mostly worldly sorrow there- "oops we got caught by the evil secular media and liberal bloggers"- rather than much godly sorrow- "we grieve for those we've thrown under the bus."
(PS to my previous comment replying to Mike if approved)
Delete- and Mike, I did my own research- my conclusions are not based on this site; I simply read it too because I am concerned about what I am seeing documented in a variety of things Mark Driscoll has said in teaching/preaching, articles and addresses to a variety of people, on his own facebook page. I also read a variety of blogs from a broad spectrum of society. Mars Hill is extending its reach, and it is currently not dealing with spiritual abuse issues. That concerns me greatly.
Hey Mike!
DeleteRead this:
http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/search?q=reconciliation
and then please come back here and let us know if you are still puzzled.
An addendum would be to look up every blog post written there about Lief Moi and what happened to him. A visit to Joyful Exiles wouldn't hurt, either.
DeleteThose who truly love and follow Jesus cannot be silent when the sheep are being wounded and scattered by abusive church leaders.
ReplyDeleteI just want to say that I am an atheist and I fully support you. I think what you are doing is very important and helpful to people that have been spiritually abused. I don't understand the few posters who feel that you are doing something wrong when you are only telling the truth and sharing your experience so that others know they are not alone.
ReplyDeleteHaving experienced spiritual abuse in another church and having been on that healing journey for a number of years (God does bring healing) I personally think it is good to try and help any person hurt by any church.
ReplyDeleteI am so glad you have written these things down. I am sorry for many of the past comments, they seem to come from a strange place. I think we would spend a long time looking for lines in the Bible that support being complacent when churches such a Mars Hill exist. Godspeed!
ReplyDelete