Friday, February 3, 2012

Speaks for Itself

Based on the comment below, I have decided to remove the picture I had posted here (the kool-aid pic).  I removed it as I don't feel it contributes to what this blog is supposed to be about.  Understandably, I have my "angry days" and this was posted on one of them.  For those that don't know, the reason that many people refer to drinking the kool-aid specifically when it comes to Mars Hill is because of this Shut up and drink your juice box video.

However, the rest of that particular comment feels like another "You Should Just Be Quiet" comment, and so I invite you to read that blog post.



  1. An article on cults. I thought #6 was interesting:

    6. Put forth a closed sense of logic; allow no real input or criticism.

    Brother Jacob continually reminded his congregation that to desert the group was tantamount to eternal damnation. Members of the community were taught that temptation was everywhere and could come from anyone and everyone not associated with Jacob. For hours each evening, Jacob lectured on theology, the evils of modern society, and the hypocrisy of organized religion. He warned his congregation that to lose sight of his message, even for a minute, would be tantamount to suicide.Brother Jacob warned his congregation that to lose sight of his message, even for a minute, would be tantamount to suicide.He urged them to report any doubts or negative thoughts to Jacob immediately, and to assist each other in remaining spiritually pure by informing Jacob of any concerns they felt about the purity and purpose of their fellow congregants. Bill tried his best to live up to these strict rules; in doing so, he came to unquestionably accept the belief that Jacob was a prophet appointed by God.

  2. I am not a member of Mars Hill church though I have been greatly helped by some books written by both Mark Driscoll along with a myriad of other pastors / leaders in the body of Christ at large.

    Don't you think it is just as much condescending and hurtful to imply (with a picture like this) that people who may choose to attend Mars Hill Church or other Acts 29 churches, and have not been abused but have been helped, are "drinking the KoolAid." If this site exists to "share your stories," where does a picture like this come into play?

    I am speaking as someone who has been abused by spiritual authority in another church context, and also someone who (very sadly) has indirectly ahurt people in the context of pastoring due to my own sin and lack of training. Perhaps the real problem is that we live in a broken world with people who are all sinful. There will (sadly again) always be problems in the church of Jesus Christ. That is not an excuse, but a reality that is a very freeing. I know that part of the time when I was abused was also related to a bit of idealism that lies within me. The gospel is needed for this simple reality, our ideals and the ideals of scripture don;t always get worked out perfectly. I'm not sure, but I trust that many of the pastors you speak about on this site have themselves felt abused by members of their own congregation at times and have thus sought to set up their structures to try and mitigate the best result for God's glory and everyone involved.

    Throwing out the name "cult" is also not helpful. And the truth is that it doesn't mean much because from the early days of Christianity it was considered a cult and still is by many atheistic thinkers today. Christ's kingdom lived out really is counter cultural and can seem strange to our sensibilities. I am not saying that Mars hill is or isn't doing that, but I know from experience on both sides of the "abuse" label can be both real and by is hard to know even when you are in the situation itself much less when put on the internet with simple text....

    So, please realize that many who may be "drinking the KoolAid" might be having a genuinely good experience of the kingdom of God, even if you didn't for whatever reasons or because of whoever's sin...We all need to respect one another as we speak the truth in love.

    1. It's a fine line at times. Processing hurt and wrestling with God, though, will not be a nice neat package with all the mature words. Reconciliation within relationship will bring a safe refuge for us to challenge each other to bring words of life instead of words of death. Mars Hill Refuge, thank you for your openness to wrestle with this, so that others don't feel isolated and, like me, "am I taking crazy pills?"

      So - maybe one picture could be the kool aid and another picture could be a strait jacket? What would other readers add to the collage I wonder...

    2. I also believe that God is the one that can take a hurtful and abusive situation and transform it for His glory, not whether someone has a good experience there or a bad experience there.